God, your doctrine is irrelevant!


The doctrine of Calvinism teaches we are foreknown by God and subsequently called by God.  They teach that we have no free will in the matter.  They teach, there are those who are predestined to be saved and there is nothing those people can do about it,  They also teach, there are those who are predestined to be objects of God’s wrath and there is nothing they can do about it.

In their doctrines, they take great comfort they have the true understanding of scripture, they are the ones leading the blind.  If they truly do, I say great!  Let’s all be Calvinist.  That is if God is one first.

You have heard it said:

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.[1]

But Calvinist say, Those, not predestined to damnation, shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

You have heard it said:

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.[2]

But Calvinist say, those, not predestined to damnation, believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

You have heard it said:

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.[3]

But Calvinist say, But those, who are not predestined to damnation, drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

You have heard it said:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[4]

But Calvinist say, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that only those, not predestined to damnation, believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You have heard it said:

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.[5]

But Calvinist say, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name only those, not predestined to damnation, believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

You have heard it said:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.[6]

But Calvinist say, And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That those, not predestined to damnation, believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You have heard it said:

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.[7]

But Calvinist say, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.  And let him that heareth say, Come.  And let him that is athirst come.  And those, not predestined to damnation, let him take the water of life freely.

So what is it?  Does God need to get with the program and change His doctrine?  Or, do the Calvinist need to get with the program and change their doctrine?  If I were to take a guess, not being a gambling man mind you.  I would guess, it is the Calvinist who have not followed the gospel according to scripture.  They are the ones who have not followed The Gospel According to the Gospel.

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?[8]

Excellent question Jesus.  Well Calvinist, do you believe this?


[1] 1 John 4:15

[2] John 5:1

[3] John 4:14

[4] John 3:16

[5] Acts 10:43

[6] John 3:14-15

[7] Revelation 22:17

[8] John 11:26

10 thoughts on “God, your doctrine is irrelevant!

  1. Dave,

    Sadly, you just keep writing, but don’t answer those that post questions. I have made many, and you have not addressed them?

    And again, this is but a mere caricature to the depth and history of Calvinistic theology. As I made statement in one of my comments on my own blog. (Which you did not understand?) There are different Calvinistic theologies, from Calvin and his double predestination (Supralapsarianism), to the Infralapsarian (sub- or postlapsarianism, etc.), of Emil Brunner, and so many others. No, your statements are just poor theology (or really no theology!) and certain ad hoc arguments.

    As I have stated, one just cannot understand the Holy Scriptures, without certain “theological” study! The day of simple Bible thumping is dead! One can quote verse after verse, but they must be put within the proper history, genre, and good exegesis! That’s interpretation. Again, one must also look at the history of Augustine also. Perhaps Calvin’s greatest mentor!

    Sorry Dave, you have to do your “homework” here!

  2. As to your questions, maybe they need repeating. Please without history, and the quotes of church fathers, quote me a scripture and ask me if I believe it. It may be simple but that is what I need.

  3. Dave,
    There is nothing in John 3:16 that negates a certain “Calvinist” understanding.

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but HAVE everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

    First we have God, His sovereign person and character, who loved the world or better the sinful cosmos. That He gave His one and only Son that “whosover” believes, etc. Belief has to be made personal, and this is also given and measured by God. So the “whosoevers” are those that believe…”in Him”. So there is no diminishing the Atonement here, but at the same time only those that “believe” will not perish. We find the “elect” or chosen of God in those that believe the Gospel of God. And certainly this does not mean someone who just thinks their saved, because they hold to some statement of election (by itself). No only those who believe in and love God in Christ, as Savior and Lord, are the true “whosovers” in this Text, and the chosen.

    And a quote from the OT, “May your lovingkindnesses also come to me, O Lord, Your salvation according to Your word.” (Ps. 119: 41)

    Salvation is the “gift” of God that all Christians desire. And even this desire is itself a gift of God. But true Christianity is always something that God does to us, for us, and in us! We say Amen. And we walk with God! (Gal. 5:25) And indeed salvation will not be complete until we stand before the Lord. But we need not doubt or fear the Judgment of God, if “salvation” (present) lives within us now. Here is always faith. And we can never in this life out-run “faith”. Faith is always a sign of the “elect” and chosen of God!

    “Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among (of) His creatures.” (James 1:17-18)

  4. I am taken back a bit by your admission that whosoever doesn’t mean something akin to “anyone”. But this is what you are saying. If it means the those not predestined to damnation, why did the translators not write that?
    I agree with you that belief is a great place to start, but it has to have actions. See my post “James, you are to extreme!”
    I agree with you whole heartedly that thinking one is saved is not the same as saved, even in the context of Calvinism. So we agree again.
    When you quote Ps 119:41 I feel like your making my point about the hope of salvation in a believers life. They (the Old Testament saints) and us today share the same hope and promises given to our father Abraham. That is why we must have faith combined with actions. I am sure this is where we will disagree.
    Amen and Amen salvation is a gift from God. And yes again this desire is a gift of God. For no man may know God unless the spirit of God draw him, as scripture teaches. But We seem to nullify to what degree all men have been drawn by God. We seem to nullify to what degree God has revealed Himself to all men. It is like we do not want to understand that no man is without an excuse before God. All men have the choice to accept or reject God based on the very minimal revelation of God to man. I know you will not agree here and I know it smacks of free will. Well it is free will in action. That is why men our without excuse based on this basic revelation of God.
    (Rom 1:20 NIV) For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
    Paul speaking to Timothy speaks of a hope he has for the elect. That is they may too obtain salvation.(2 Tim 2:10 NIV) Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. So what gives Paul? We say the elect have salvation and your busting your butt so they can. What, are you so stupid that you didn’t know you didn’t need to do that? Hey moron, they were already saved!
    Of course irishanglican I do this in fun.

  5. Dave,

    It is ironic, that St. Paul himself even says.. the Apostle to the Gentiles or Nations, “For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that “they also” may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.” Note too, in verse 9, that “the word of God is not imprisoned”…and in this too, verses 11-13. HE is faithful to “Himself” and His work of Redemption!

    Christ did not come to redeem every human person, but indeed every “sinful” person that will come to Him! And in the Theater of God’s Glory of the creation and universe, Christ will be Lord, and even here HE will redeem the whole of creation, but only when He comes in glory and in the eternal day! (Rom. 8: 20-21)

  6. Your reference to James 1:21 I agree it is the regenerated man who obeys the word that can obey God. However did you notice James’ comment concerning the word and obedience to the word, “which can save you.”
    (James 1:21 NIV) Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
    James, speaking of the believer obeying the word has a hope of salvation revealed in his comment. Which is what I advocate, as you know.

    As far as James 1:25 I agree with your comment “a Christianity this is still without part of the law.”
    (James 1:25 NIV) But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it–he will be blessed in what he does.
    But I see it as the faith in the law, not the law of the faith. It is the faith of the Law passed down through Moses and the Prophets that gives freedom. Would you agree with this?

    If we need to apply the book of James carefully, then are you saying I didn’t?

  7. Dave, the tone of your posts seems to be intentionally antagonistic, but I feel that you are genuinely seeking to learn and to spreak the knowledge of the gospel. Perhaps you need not be so sarcastic, so forward in your attack against that which you see as incorrect? No man has a corner on truth, save Christ.

    That said, I think perhaps the confusion of “whosoever” has to do with whether believing makes you a believer, or whether you believe because you were already a believer. In different terms, if you steal, do you become a thief, or would you be able to steal if you were not already a thief?

    You seem to be reading it as the action changing the person, not the action identifying the person who has already been changed. Is that a fair analysis of your post?

  8. Thanks for you comment Jon.
    There is a great question I have within myself and this is it. To what degree should I advance or come along side or tone down or not be so sarcastic? I do not know. But if scripture truly teaches that we have a hope of salvation, which is my utmost conviction, and there are those who teach once saved always saved and by the way you are saved, then there are many people in danger of hell and do not know it.
    I can get out of my understanding what Jesus said:
    (Luke 13:24 NIV) “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
    The narrow door is on the narrow path, it is not found on the wide path. How many think because they are on the narrow path they will go through the narrow door? I would say all of us. So if I see a teaching I believe is a danger to men souls in the church, to what degree of zeal do you think the Lord is willing I should have?
    But didn’t even Luther drive points home when he made fun the doctrines of the catholic church? My understanding is, he had plenty of material to be sarcastic and was.

    As far as no man having the corner on the truth, then to what degree can you trust what Paul taught? Maybe we should be suspect of John? Woops, I am doing it again.
    Apparently these men had a corner on the truth and I believe you would agree with this. And what hope do we have today to say we have a corner on the truth just like these men?
    (Phil 4:9 NIV) Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me–put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

    There is only one true gospel. No matter how much we may spur all kinds of teachings off of it. There is only one true gospel. How can any of us say we can confidently share Christ if we at first can not be confident of our understanding we have the truth to present.

    Please restate your thoughts on this post, because I am still cloudy about what you are trying to point out.
    Thanks

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