Preaching it all wrong

Since I have given you the “Scriptural Challenge” which dealt with those who can speak at a gathering of believers (Church), I though it would be prudent to address other issues of the church as well.  I would like to thank Jason for the prompting.  Before I begin, I would like to review who it was that Paul said could speak on “Sunday go to meeting”.  They are people who give a word in tongues, interpreted the message of tongues, prophesy or have a special revelation.  And that was the end of the list.

For clarification, scripture makes a distinction from preaching and teaching.  Preaching at best appears to be a public proclamation of the gospel while teaching is the instructions to live by and doctrine of righteousness.

So let us look at the subject of preaching.  Scripture reveals that John the Baptist preached and so did Jesus, Paul, false teachers etc.  So there are many who can preach any kind of message.  But what about us who attend the local body, who is to do the preaching and how is it done?

How is preaching done?

By answering how it is done, will impact who is to do the preaching.  Preaching is to be done as we do it today, persuasively with well thought out sermons so that men might grasp the message of the gospel, so their faith will be anchored in solid teaching.  This may be what we have come to expect and believe, but this is not what we have as our example to follow.

Instead as men who have been entrusted with the gospel and given the Holy Spirit upon conversion, we are to preach not with wise words, but with a demonstration of God’s power.  Men are to have their faith rest not in our clever sermons but in God’s power.  Now if we fail to do this, whose fault is it but our own?

My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.[1]

Who is to be responsible to preach?

Elders are those who could possible preach, for they are worthy of double honor.  In particular those who preach, but even those who do not.  So not all elders preach, but they can.

The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.[2]

Timothy was instructed by Paul to preach.  Being he was now without Paul in ministry, I suppose he would be the elder of that church and Paul wanted that particular elder to preach.

Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.[3]

We also have a hint those who evangelize are to preach the gospel.  For how can anyone believe what they have not heard?  Preaching (the proclamation of the gospel) is how the lost are able to hear and believe.

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?[4]

So scripturally speaking elders can preach if they want, but everyone who wants to share Christ has to.  So if you are a believe who wants to obey Christ and preach His message, then every believer is a preacher.

Where is preaching to take place?

Where is the preaching to take place?  Only is church?  Preaching is to be done not only publically but from house to house.  Paul didn’t think it beneath him to go preach in small groups that met in homes.  He also didn’t think it was a bad idea to preach on the street corner either.  Yes he preached in churches (Synagogues) too.  Anywhere he could persuade men by the power of God.

You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.[5]

What is to be preached?

Now with the power of God behind us in our preaching, what is it we should preach?  How about preaching what Paul preached?  That seems good enough.  In fact it is so good, He said that if anyone came preaching other that what he and the other who worked with him preached, those people are to be condemned to hell.  So let’s stick with the doctrine of Paul and all that agrees with it.  Hint, this would be all of scripture.  But not all of our current doctrine and understanding of scripture.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned![6]

What type of compensation for preaching?

Those who preach are to make their living at it, not their fortunes.

In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.[7]

When to preach?

Preaching is something that needs to take place at all times.  Anytime we wish to share Christ to the lost or give an answer for the hope in us we are to be ready to preach.  Not just Sunday morning to the already enlightened.

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.[8]


Remember I said Paul taught that in the local body one who gives a word in tongues, he who interpret it, he who prophesies and he who has a word of revelation can speak in the “Sunday service” (meeting of believers).  We also learned that elders can preach, but this in not meant to br taken as a Sunday morning event.  The preaching of the elder in many ways means evangelism, just as much as it means meeting house to house in small groups.  But did you notice what was not mentioned, hinted at or left to guessing?  Exactly what we have in our churches today.  A man who holds the office of the pastor is the one who has taken it upon himself to preach and this mainly to the Saints?  To the lost yes, for we are all to share Christ, but where is it said the pastor is the one who preaches to the saints, let alone every Sabbath?  Where is it said the pastor, because he is the pastor, is to speak outside of speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, prophesying or giving a word of revelation?

And you think I am off my rocker for saying the church has left the teachings in scriptures.  Who is obeying the Lord here in His word and who is not?  Some say yes to God and do not do as His word says.  They replace what we have been instructed to do, with that we have never been instructed to do.

Yet we will justify the existence of what we do to reach the lost for Christ.  This we do by ignoring those who Paul instructs should speak at the local gathering for the Pastor to preach.  And this we say to reach the lost.  If we were serious about reaching the lost wouldn’t we do it in the power that Paul preached?

But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”[9]

[1] 1 Corinthians 2:4-5

[2] 1Timothy 5:17

[3] 1 Timothy 4:13

[4] Romans 10:14

[5] Acts 20:20

[6] Galatians 1:8-9

[7] 1 Corinthians 9:14

[8] 2 Timothy 4:2

[9] 1 Corinthians 14:24-25

Scriptural challenge (Part 2)

Yesterday, I gave the challenge to find in scripture were the church organization we have today is taught us in scripture.  I gave evidence from scripture that we are ignoring what has been passed down to us from those who have been guided by the Holy Spirit.  It is my conviction that one of the reasons we do not see the Holy Spirit in our lives like we do those in the book of Acts or 1 Corinthians is because we have left scripture. 

Of course we all think that we have stayed true to scripture and the message of the gospel, but yesterdays post glaringly shows we do not.  Everyone who is part of the local church will defend to the death what we have today.  Heck, I would have done the same thing at one time.  But I can not get past this glaring difference between what Paul taught us and what we do.  Can you?

The scripture I chose for this comes from Paul when he is teaching how a local assembly of believers is supposed to conduct themselves.  His goal in this teaching is so the church can be instructed and encouraged.

For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.[1]

But that is the job of the pastor right?  After all what is he there for on Sunday mornings if it is not for those two basics purposes?  If not for those two basic purposes, then what is he there for, to oversee what he is over?  And if he is over, is he not in charged?  And if he is in charge, has he not become the head?  And if not the head, have we not rejected God as our king, just like the jews?

If we are to deny he is their for the purpose of being the head, then it is for encouragement and instruction then, right?  But if he is there for instruction and encouragement, then he again has usurped what the Holy Spirit has given to us as instructions to obey, concerning how the church is to function when we assemble.

It is not taught in scripture that this is for the office of the pastor to do.  This is for those who speak in tongues, interpret tongues, prophesy and have a revelation.  This is two be done orderly and with no more than three who speak in tongues, no more than three who prophecy, but everyone can in due time encourage and instruct in the local assembly as the Holy Spirit leads.  You know, like everyone does everyday outside of the assembly in everyday Christian life.

Again it is not to be taken that those who God has given a heart of a shepherd can not do these things.  On the contrary, all people who function in all the offices can participate.  What we expect from church, encouragement and instruction, is not an office driven activity, but a move of the Holy Spirit activity that can come from any Spirit filled believer in the assembly.

Which now gets me to my point.  We will never become what we read in scripture if we ignore scripture for what promotes our own spiritual laziness and apathy.  I don’t care if we are “Spirit filled”.  If we refuse to do as we see instructed to us by the Holy Spirit, do we really think God is pleased?  And if not pleased, is He willing to give us what we say we want?  Not when we the “Spirit filled” can’t even follow the Spirit so the Spirit can be in our midst.

Sadly I think many of us have not one bit of desire to do these things as part of our lives in Christ.  Does this make us hot for Christ, but certainly not cold, but lukewarm doesn’t not.

Since we will continue to refuse to obey scripture, and grieve the Holy Spirit, we will willingly keep those whose hearts are hard from being convicted by the Holy Spirit, since we absolutely refuse to obey the Holy Spirit.

But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you![2]

How is it that at many churches we sing the song Breath without a thought to the words we worship with? 

“This is the air I breath

This is the air I breath

Your Holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread

This is my daily bread

Your very word spoken to me”

We do not and never will have the presence of the Holy Spirit in our midst like the verse above, because we will never do it the way the Spirit of Christ tells us.  We will never experience the Holy Spirit in our midst like this and nether will the lost.  We refuse to do what we are instructed by the Holy Spirit.  We will not for the benefit of our own spiritual well being, nor those of the lost.  Instead let us feed our spiritual laziness and apathy with scorn towards the instructions from the scriptures we say we follow.

So let us meet on Sunday and let us worship to the song Breath and tell the Lord how important His presence and word is to us.  Let us speak to him how desperate we are to have him in our lives, but by God keep Him at bay, because we are not that desperate to obey Him!

“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.  They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'”[3]

[1] 1 Corinthians 14:31

[2] 1 Corinthians 14:24-25

[3] Matthew 15:8-9

Scriptural challenge

Many people think I am off my rocker for insisting that the local church is not functioning as it should.  Another way to say it is the local church is not biblical.  My concern is more that a perception.  I write this to challenge people to actually compare what they practice with the instructions of scripture concerning our gatherings.

Who is it that Paul taught should speak in church?  Did he teach the one who gives the announcements?  Well of course the pastor, right?

I asked people before, and even a pastor who is like a father to me, who put the pastor in charge?  We have Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, Teachers and Pastors, so who says the pastor is in charge of the local church?  Why is the pastor the one who tells the prophets, evangelist, teachers and apostles when to speak and if their word is applicable?

Where in scripture do we see the instructions from the Holy Spirit that the pastor is over the other offices and has authority to release or hinder those offices in the local service?  Where in scripture do we have the instructions from the Holy Spirit the pastor is the one who teaches the congregation, does the “vision casting” is the main one who sets all agendas?  I can find no such scripture. 

So who is it that the Holy Spirit has instructed us in scripture to speak at the local assembly?  We know from Paul’s writings that one who has the gift of tongues is eligible to speak in church.  And this can be done by two or three individuals at one local gathering.  Then scripture teaches that someone must interpret, either the one who spoke or a different interpreter.

So now we have two kinds of people who can speak in the local assembly.  The first is one who speaks in tongues, provided there is an interpreter.  The second kind is the interpreter if the one who speaks in tongues is not the one to interpret, depending on the Spirits leading.  So far so good.  We can see how all the local bodies are in line with scripture here, because we allow this in our meetings, but let’s keep going. 

If anyone speaks in a tongue, two–or at the most three–should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.  If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.[1]

Paul has given us further instructions that prophets should speak, and again only two or three per local assembly.  Oh and if someone has a special revelation, maybe a word of knowledge, then they too are someone who can speak to the congregation.

Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.  And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.[2]

Let’s see, we have several people that Paul instructs us to have speak at the Sunday service.  We have those who speak in tongues, those who interpret tongues, those who prophecy and those who have a special revelation.  That is four different types of people giving different types of instruction, exhortation, correction or possibly rebuking.  Imagine all of this without the use of the word “Pastor”.  Oh my goodness, the office of the Pastor is not even mentioned in the local assembly.  In fact no office is mentioned at all.  Could it be because Christ is our head and not the office of a man in the church?

This doesn’t mean the man who wants to be a shepherd doesn’t get to speak during the Sunday service.  No indeed, for he too can speak if he speaks in tongues, interprets, prophecies or has a special revelation.

For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.[3]

We are instructed by the Holy Spirit to seek the greater gift if we really want to make an impact on peoples lives on Sunday morning meetings.  It is further revealed that Paul desired everyone to speak in tongues or prophecy making every individual eligible to give a word at the local assembly.

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.  But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.  I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.[4]

The instruction we have from the Holy Spirit to edify the church by strengthening it, encouraging it and comforting it is by allowing those who speak in tongues, interpret, prophesy or have a word of revelation, to be those who instruct on Sunday mornings.

In fact the best way to win the world is to do just exactly that.

But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”[5]

How about that for a Sunday church service!

So my challenge to those who swear by what we have at the local church, please find me the scripture to support what you do.  You know and I know there is none.  The reality is we have forsaken what scripture says for our own way.  We do this while we worship Him.  How ironic, isn’t it.  We have decided to follow the teachings of men on this matter.  How the Lord must be pleased.

“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.  They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'”[6]

[1] 1 Corinthians 14:27-28

[2] 1 Corinthians 14:29-30

[3] 1 Corinthians 14:31

[4] 1 Corinthians 14:1,3,5

[5] 1 Corinthians 14:24-25

[6] Matthew 15:8-9

Forsake not the message of the fellowship

We have been looking this week at the common phrase “forsake not the fellowship”.  We already have the understanding that it is used to condemn those who do not attend the local church, but instead attend a smaller home gathering. 

Now through this week we have learned

  1. Scriptures speaks of two or three as fellowship.  This is sufficient for Christ to be there and God the Father to answer prayers.
  2. True fellowship does not come in the traditional church format where only a few encourage the body and the rest discuss everything from sports to movies before and after the so called fellowship.  Biblical fellowship takes place when the individuals of the body encourage each other with scripture when they come together.
  3. If our coming together does not produce in us a maturing new man who lives righteously then we have no fellowship at all.  True Biblical fellowship begets godliness.

But what is the context of all this?  What position of belief is the writer of Hebrews coming from when he says,

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.  Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching.[1]

In the verse before this the writer wants the reader to hold unswervingly to the gospel by which we encourage each other in true Biblical fellowship towards all godliness.  But what is this gospel?  Is it that we have arrived, we have made it, we are now secure?  Is it the gospel we preach for people to come forward and be saved and posses’ eternal life or is it something else?

You have heard it said.

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.[2]

But we say.

Let us hold unswervingly to the factual we profess, for he who gave was faithful.

If we care to look and understand scripture, we find the message of the gospel of hope in the misused verse of “forsake not the fellowship” 

When you come together to fellowship in your local body, what gospel do you share?  Is it the “but we say” verse or the “you have heard it said” verse?  Whose voice are you listening to and repeating? 

If you desire true fellowship with the eternal gospel that is testified with great support in scripture then I encourage you to get to know The Gospel According to the Gospel.  The gospel of scripture that testifies our gospel is a hope and a promise.  It is not the gospel of the factual.  We have a hope of salvation not salvation itself.  We have the hope of eternal life, we do not posses it yet. We are imputed righteousness, we do not posses it yet.

So now give yourself a grade.

  1. Do you have two or three in your gathering?
  2. Is everyone in your fellowship encouraging each other with scripture?
  3. Is you fellowship moving people to maturity and holiness in Christ?
  4. Are you preaching the gospel of hope and the one who promised?

If you do not agree with me, can you prove with scripture that I have mislead and misrepresented in our discussion of “forsake not the fellowship”.  Any challengers?

[1] Hebrews 10:24-25

[2] Hebrews 10:23

Forsake the failed fellowship

In the last two posts we have learned that there is more to the phrase “forsake not the fellowship” then a simple incrimination of those who do not attend church.  We have discovered that scriptural fellowship is when two or at times three are gathered together.  We have also learned that the Father will move heaven and earth to answer the prayers of that small fellowship.  It isn’t the purpose of scripture to place the small gathering of believers under scrutiny of the local church.  Instead we find scripture admonishing the small group to do and be what Christ has called us to be and do.  So we can quit looking down on those who fellowship in smaller circles.

We have learned it is more than a head count.  It isn’t a simple role call of attendance, there is something for every believer to be accountable to, if we are going to qualify any group as fellowshipping.  Scripture teaches that in order to qualify as fellowship, every believer is to encourage one another.  We are to encourage each other to be obedient and strengthen each other with the word of God and hope of His return.

So with the size (two or three) and the responsibilities (everyone) laid out in biblical fellowship, lets look at the purpose of this fellowship.  Scripture is looking for the end result of this fellowship.  There is something that God wants to happen in His people as a result of fellowship.  Remember this result needs to come through the encouragement of every believer in each others lives when we get together.

Right on the heals of the responsibilities of all believers we have scripture teaching we need to quit deliberately sinning.  This is the goal of what the Lord wants to do in our fellowships.  He wants us to mature in all things and in righteousness.

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approachingIf we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.[1]

Why should this purpose of our fellowship be strange to us?  It shouldn’t, since we have scripture in another place letting us know that the spiritually immature are not acquainted with righteousness.  So again the goal of our fellowshipping one with another, whether in a large group of small, is holiness in the life of the believer.

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.  But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.[2]

If your fellowship with other believers is not helping you to mature and train yourself to live righteously then you are immature. If you have received the knowledge of the truth and do not train yourselves to leave deliberate sin, then you who have received the truth have no more sacrifice for sins left.  God help us all.  We all need to participate in real fellowship for our own sakes and that of those we call brothers and sisters in the Lord, no matter where we find ourselves.  We need to recognize it is all of us who have forsaken the fellowship or we will suffer for our arrogance and pride.

We can not sit back and point the finger at those who worship in very small gatherings rather than the local body.  If you in the local body are not nurturing the environment where every individual is encouraged to strengthen his brothers in the Lord, then your fellowship has failed. If you in the local body do have members encouraging members, yet it does not produce mature believers who live righteously before the Lord, then again your fellowship had failed.  If all your local body has is a role call when they assemble together, then your fellowship has failed, you are not obeying scripture that teaches us to not forsake the fellowship.  If your fellowship has failed and you want true biblical fellowship, then maybe you should leave the local body and seek out a small group of practicing believers of the word and not those who spout quotes only.

[1] Hebrews 10:25-27

[2] Hebrews 5:13-14

Yeah local church, forsake not the fellowship

Those who attend local churches are always so quick to instruct those who do not. They are more than happy to quote the following verse to show the error of those who choose to stay away from the local body of believers.

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing,[1]

When I am confronted by those who so dogmatically instruct me in the better way, I always ask them to quote the entire scripture.  As of yet no one has been able to get past the little sound bite they so easily regurgitate, and be able to quote me the whole of the scripture.

Did you know there is a second half of the verse that every Christian tardy officer quotes, but they don’t realize they only have half the picture?  They are more interested in a legalism birthed in the local church than what scripture teaches us.  There is no interest in what makes a fellowship of believers, that being two or more, or what we are to do in that fellowship.  Rather they think this scripture is about a head count.

In order to make sure we actually have the right kind of fellowship when we come together, scripture has surrounded this verse of incrimination to those who do not attend the local church, with the purpose of that fellowship. 

In the verse before we have this statement.

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.[2]

Then the verse in question actually finishes by saying.

but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching.[3]

It isn’t the pastor’s job of doing the fellowshipping.  It is the job of every member of the body of Christ.  Everyone is to be spurring one another and encouraging one another with our hope found in scripture.  Not the pastor.

Which brings me to a sad state of affairs.  In every body of adult believers I have attended we talk job, sports, hunting, real estate, movies, anything but scripture.  And this while attending the church.  And in the believers home it is no different.

When I was confronted by those long time church associates about my tardiness from the local assembly, by the half a verse in question, I would ask them the last time we talk the book.  They came to realize it was never, it was always something else, but never the book.

So what of it local church?  You have a large head count, but no one is spurring or encouraging one another as scripture has told us to do.  Every individual who reads scripture should know what we are instructed to do when we come together.  Oh, maybe that is it.  This fact is evident only to those who read scripture.

You have heard it said.

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.  Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching.[4]

But we say.

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing.

How about next time someone wants to play the trump card on the believer who has “forsaken the fellowship”, how about them asking themselves if they have encouraged with scripture those they fellowship with towards love and good deeds in Christ.  Or how about encouraging with scripture those they fellowships with concerning the approaching day of our Lord.

Sitting in a large gathering of believers listening and leaving is not fellowshipping.  Nor is coming and going without individuals using the word of God to encourage and spur each other on.  So what of it local church, quit forsaking the fellowship!

[1] Hebrews 10:25a

[2] Hebrews 10:24

[3] Hebrews 10:25b

[4] Hebrews 10:24-25

Forsake not the fellowship

Have I forsaken the fellowship? I have a confession.  I have not attended a local church for about seven years now.  Before this I was a youth pastor for about four years and helped in youth ministry for about another three years.  This doesn’t include my own time spent in my own youth group from the age of sixteen and my two years at Bible College.

Yet with this background I have not even the slightest desire to attend a local church.  So, have I forsake the fellowship?  Have I not kept the instruction from scripture that says we are not to forsake coming together as believers?

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing,[1]

I can not tell you how many times I have had this quoted to me or something very similar to it since I have stopped going to the local church.  But the question still remains, have I violated this instruction?  Have I stopped coming together with believers, since I do not do it at a local church?

Even though I meet with my family and other believers for worship and the study of scripture, I am sure there are those who think this is insufficient to count as meeting together with other believers.

It is assumed by those that tell me to get back into fellowship with other believers, that it needs to happen within a church.  Mostly because they feel that is where the believers gather.  The more believers that gather, the more fellowship can happen, the more I keep this instruction in scripture.

But if this is true, that the larger the gathering the more the command is kept to keep the fellowship, then are not those in small churches not as obedient to keep the instruction as those in larger churches.  How about those in mega churches, are they the ones who uphold this instruction better than all of us?  If after all, the larger the gathering of believers the more fellowship can take place, right?

I know I have taken it too far.  The point to be made is, I need to get involved in a local body of believers, in the minds of many, in order to keep the instruction of not forsaking the fellowship.

But is it I who has taken it too far or is it those who preach not forsaken the fellowship who have taken it too far?  I can not find in scripture where I am instructed that the local church is the fellowship I need to seek out.  Nor is it the mega church.  I can find nothing in scripture that speaks of what I am to consider fellowship, oh except for this one.

For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”[2]

Well, well, well I guess the minimal number of keeping the instruction of not forsaking the fellowship would be two.  Whew, was I getting worried.  I guess all those who run around telling individuals like me to quit forsaking the fellowship, have not considered what Jesus has said.  It takes two and even up to three sometimes to come together for Jesus to be in their midst.

You have heard it said.

“Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.[3]

But we say.

“Again, I tell you that if the local church on earth agrees about anything it ask for, it will be done for it by my Father in heaven.

Apparently the Father does not consider the local body any more affective in fellowship, prayer and impacting this old world, as he does the two or three that have Christ in their midst.

How about this for a turn around?  We the groups of two or three have just as much calling and ear of the Father to change the world let alone to have our lives impacted by Christ. 

Step aside big boys and let the little guys change the world.  WE HAVE WASTED ENOUGH TIME BEING MANIPULATED BY YOU ALREADY!

[1] Hebrews 10:25a

[2] Mathew 18:20

[3] Matthew 18:19